Who is your food faith invested in?
You see, faith really is an investment. And people get upset when their investments, their foundations, their world view might be wrong. They don’t look at evidence, they don’t use reason.
They lash out. Why? Change is painful. Change really sucks. No one likes it.
How did the experts become ‘experts?’ How does anyone become an expert nowadays? Is it experience? Academic studies? A combination? Are you an expert if you pick a hobby and stick with it for years? Does it even matter?
No person, no personality, no one group is flawless. None of them have all the right answers. I hope if your personal experience and experimentation doesn’t line up with what I post, you’ll speak up. No one can learn if you don’t share.
Mr. Perfect… Isn’t
There was a day when I trusted the ‘experts,’ not realizing that they were also human, they had blind spots, they had agendas, they had flaws. When I developed hyperemesis, I butted up against person after person, group after group who just INSISTED that I couldn’t be having hyperemesis while on a completely traditional foods diet. In fact, I had been on a traditional foods diet for years, yet I was seriously sick. I’d list everything I’d eaten in a week and they’d shake their heads and tell me I MUST be doing something wrong despite eating all of the right foods, because it just wasn’t possible to be so sick while eating so well. It was my fault, not the fault of the ‘perfect’ diet. Some even implied or outright stated I must be lying- I couldn’t eat just those foods and be so sick. I HAD to be omitting the junk food. Wasn’t I really eating bags of potato chips and boxes of twinkies and just lying about it? I MUST be lying because I didn’t fit their preconceived notions about food. I didn’t fit into their nice, neat, little square box.
We found no answers. I suffered through the pregnancy and eventually the problems temporarily vanished after the birth of my son. Time marched on. Eventually the traditional foods world came to understand that intolerances and a leaky gut can keep you ill despite a top notch diet.
About two years later, as we began the journey of finding and eliminating my intolerances, I stayed on raw dairy long after it was obvious it made my body seriously ill. Why? Because so many people proclaimed that those intolerant to dairy were only intolerant to pasteurized dairy and raw milk was a hypo-allergenic food. The ‘party line’ was that intolerance to raw milk was just about non-existent. Once again, I didn’t fit into their nice, neat, little square box.
Finally, I let my common sense make the decision. I went off of raw dairy and within a week, I was improving. I started meeting other people with the same experience. No matter what the ‘experts’ said, my body said differently. Later, after many people started sharing their experience, the tide started to turn and more people in traditional foods started admitting that, yes, you could be intolerant to even their beloved, precious raw dairy.
I have met so many people who have ignored their own bodies, their own observations, their own common sense and followed after an expert long after others could see the damage they were doing. When questioned, they always state, ‘Well, so-and-so says…’
Stop right there. If anyone says something against your own personal experience and observation, basic science and common sense and what you’re seeing in those around you, you should take a step back and re-evaluate everything.
Experts Aren’t Always Right
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you aren’t healing with what you are doing, it’s time to make a change, even if the ‘experts’ say it isn’t the right path.
Perhaps that expert isn’t right.
That is why I started down the roads I have. Gluten and Dairy-Free isn’t popular in the traditional foods world. People actually come to me and say they’re embarrassed that they are ‘only’ gluten and dairy-free, as if it’s a shame. It isn’t popular to state that everyone doesn’t have to use GAPS, SCD or the new pet diet of the day to heal their gut. And it truly isn’t popular to state that there is a difference between anaerobic lactofermentation and aerobic ‘fermentation (which isn’t).’
However, I’ve seen the changes in my own health as a result of these paths.
My own body bears witness.
It is frustrating to see bloggers giving their pet, one line advice. ‘If you’d only X, then Y would happen.’ And they give the same advice to everyone. Eat more carbs, that will solve all your ills. Everyone just needs to eat more ice cream. Here, you just need more fat. Wait, your percentage of protein to fat is wrong. You’d be in vibrant health if you’d just change this one thing…
No.
There isn’t one perfect, neat, little wrapped up answer that would just solve the world’s food problems and magically heal everyone’s guts.
We aren’t children. We must think like rational adults.
The body doesn’t work like that. Chances are, just one thing didn’t get you into this problem, and just one thing isn’t going to get you out of it. Health is a complex journey with many nuances. It is a web. It isn’t a point A to point B and that point A to point B isn’t the same for every human being on the planet.
You see, those nice, neat, little square boxes are still boxes, even though they aren’t the same boxes the processed food industry or the government proclaims are the correct boxes.
So now I’m once again having folks trying to tuck me into their nice, neat little box despite not being able to answer the tough questions over lacto-fermentation. Their faith is in their experts. They rail against the evidence because they don’t want their faith in their expert shaken. It’s not about facts, it’s about faith.
And you know, I just don’t fit into boxes.
I’m not into controversy for the sake of controversy. I don’t post these things to drive traffic. In fact, my traffic has fallen due to this series, not increased. I post it because I am being true to myself and my experiences.
So despite the fact that ‘mainstream traditional foods’ rattles against truly anaerobic fermentation, I’ve seen the results in my own gut. I’ve met others with the same experience.
Mason jar ferments never gave me a strong probiotic reaction. Harsch and Pickl-It foods do. My common sense, basic science, my experience and the experience of those who have experimented with both aerobic and truly anaerobic say the same.
There IS a difference.
So I’ll choose to stay outside of that nice, neat little box people keep wanting to shove me into.
And one day, I have faith that as more people try both styles of ferments and see the results in their own bodies, I think the party line will catch up to me. But if it never does, I’m ok with it. Because I’ve seen the improvements in myself. My own body is healthier and happier with these changes.
And that’s the bottom line.
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Next big traditional food diet craze: figuring out and accepting which diet really works for everyone!Too bad it cannot be easily marketed.
Soli @ I Believe in Butter recently posted..Today I will love my body
You know, I don’t believe it exists. Weston Price saw diets that ranged from vegetarian all the way to the Eskimos eating ginormous amounts of animal products and they all were healthy. I really don’t think there’s just one answer for all people.
Looking for that magic bullet just creates a cult of personality, it doesn’t help most people who need it.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Where Is Your Food Faith?
So funny . . . the posts that I have seen on this topic have run the gamut lately. I have to say I am more on board with your post than any other. I haven’t been on board with pickl-it thing. However, I really don’t get offended with your desire to try it and belief that it works for you. I am just not willing to go there with all the other things that I am currently doing, That is way at the bottom of my list.
I am also really exhausted with reading posts from bloggers preaching that their way is the best way. (Whether it’s doing it all or doing whatever you feel like or doing nothing at all because nothing can heal you except God . . . .blah blah blah) We all have a responsibility to learn what works for ourselves. To delegate that responsibility to someone else is the same as relying on the current medical establishment for answers. You’re right . . . no box will work for all.
I think we have a huge responsibility as bloggers to give info that we find, but not to decide for others what is best for them. Isn’t that what our disclaimers all say? I think some bloggers have a God complex. There, I said it. 🙂
Jen recently posted..Not Yo’ Mama’s Sloppy Joes
Jen and KerryAnn, I think you’re moving in a good direction here. No one can really tell anyone else what is the only way or even the best way. We all have different life situations, different health challenges and a lifetime of individual eating habits. All we as bloggers can do is present what has worked for us and suggest what we think may be helpful to others as succinctly and entertainingly as possible.
And on the Pickl-it issue … I’m really just getting started with veggie ferments and after a little research bought some small Pickl-it’s to experiment with. Didn’t seem too expensive and to me looked a bit easier to deal with. Less checking, burping, etc… Not sure why it’s controversial. If people are satisfied with the results from mason jars then just stick with it.
Kathy (aka Mrs Dull) recently posted..Scratch Cookin’ Tuesday 5/8/2012
Great post!!
Thanks for this post. I am very dogmatic so it’s good to have a reminder that not everything is black and white. I am curious what your box looks like. How did you heal your gut? What does your healing process/diet look like? 🙂
Amanda, I was dogmatic at one time, too, until I realized it was harming my health instead of helping it. That taught me a great lesson about learning to flux and that even experts can be wrong. It almost cost me my life.
I do have a series on the blog about gut healing and what I did. However, I’m in the process of revising the information because of more experience. I’ll be posting more about it soon. In the meantime, here’s the series- https://www.onevibrantmama.com/category/series/gut-health/
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Where Is Your Food Faith?
KerryAnn, good for you. I have followed experts on many issues for many years and I am never angrier than when I have a bad result because I failed to trust myself. Making Kimchi tomorrw with my brand new Pickl-It jars.
Keep up the good work. Many bloggers are “phoning it in”. Others are doing public self-therapy. I appreciate your efforts. S
Although I’ve had many experiences that made me realize how individual each of us are regarding what’s best to eat, the one that really stood out for me was 24-48 hour bone broth. I had it in my head that, as long as one wasn’t allergic to the chicken (or beef, etc.) and as long as it it was a well-raised animal, long cooked bone broth was THE STUFF. Then I started noticing nightmares and hyper sensory issues after eating it, and I eventually figured out that I could only handle bone broth cooked for about 6-8 hours. I think it was a glutamate issue. As my gut healing progressed (I still have more to go) I was able to tolerate a 12-14 hour broth. For whatever reason, I was shocked when I couldn’t tolerate the long cooked broth. I had it in my head that it could be nothing but good for me.
We’re all on a learning curve, individually and collectively. Question, research, experiment, document, analyze . . . and then start all over again. And remember to take breaks from all this what-should-I-eat analysis. It’s too easy to get overwhelmed and stressed about it.
Thanks KerryAnn for, once again, keeping it real.
I completely agree with *almost* everything here. I definitely think optimal health can be very idiosyncratic, and that individual tweaks, or even different paths, are often necessary for complete healing. I also agree that people too often blindly follow this or that guru, without looking into the evidence for themselves.
What I disagree with is, “They rail against the evidence [about lacto-fermentation] because they don’t want their faith in their expert shaken. It’s not about facts, it’s about faith.” I have looked at several entries on your site here, and I have yet to see the “facts” about the necessity of anaerobic conditions for culturing produce. If you do not have links to the science, then you are asking people to put their faith in you, as another “expert”.
I have no doubt that you have seen improvements in your health as a result of your methods. I also do not doubt that others have seen the same thing, but you well know that this is not science. This is anecdotal. Insofar as you suggest to people that they try another method when one has failed them, and/or you show how you’ve been helped by a particular method, I am completely on board and have no qualms. It is when you suggest that people are being unscientific, without providing scientific evidence yourself for your claims, that I start to have deep reservations. I also object to the use of statements such as “you might be doing more harm than good.” Present your case, cite your sources, and let your audience decide for themselves whether they are doing more harm than good.
Teri recently posted..Please vote for Roo’s Clues
Teri, those posts are almost done. They were scheduled to be done and published by now but receiving hate mail due to my writing this series got in the way. I’ll complete and release them as quickly as I can, but at this rate we’re taking care of the more immediate needs first.
NO blogger should be put into this position. It’s ridiculous and there is no call for it.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..But I Thought It Was Anaerobic As Long As It Was Under The Brine?!?
Hi KerryAnn,
I am still waiting for that link to the science that shows an anaerobic environment is “best” for lacto-fermentation. Please provide a direct link and/or proper citation of the actual scientific studies that prove this. If you are simply providing your own experiences (conducted with a scientific eye) please acknowledge that, and stop claiming that you are using science and that those who disagree with you are not. Please do not invite me once again to scour your entire blog looking for the answers that you should have provided in your original post, and that should take but a moment to provide now.
Teri, check a dictionary. By definition, if it isn’t completely anaerobic, it isn’t fermentation- it’s cellular respiration. The two different processes produce two different bacterial profiles. One will have anaerobes, one will have anaerobes and aerobic bacteria. Check out any college level science text book for explanations of the differences but Wikipedia explains it, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_(food)
“Fermentation in food processing typically is the conversion of carbohydrates to alcohols and carbon dioxide or organic acids using yeasts, bacteria, or a combination thereof, under anaerobic conditions.”
That’s like asking me for one study that defines the term ‘respiration’ or ‘fusion’ or even ‘fungi.’
Hi KerryAnn,
From the Wikipedia entry on Lactic Acid Fermentation:
“…however, facultative anaerobic organisms [eg. lactobacillus species] will both ferment and undergo respiration in the presence of oxygen.[3]”
Further on under the heading “Sauerkraut”:
“…As in yogurt, when the acidity rises due to lactic acid-fermenting organisms, many other pathogenic microorganisms are killed. The bacteria produce lactic acid, as well as simple alcohols and other hydrocarbons. These may then combine to form esters, contributing to the unique flavor of sauerkraut.[1]”
Here’s another link and quote, http://inst.bact.wisc.edu/inst/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticle&art_id=95:
“…lactic acid bacteria happily grow under anaerobic conditions, but they can also grow in oxygen’s presence. They are protected from oxygen byproducts (e.g. H2O2) because they have peroxidases. These organisms, as defined in experiment 3, are aerotolerant anaerobes.”
This is all well-known and understood within the community. It’s perfectly legitimate for me to ask for scientific proof of your claims and insinuations that traditional methods do not provide safe and/or beneficial cultured foods. There was no need for snark in your response. I understand that a lot of people have been questioning you, but you have made some bold statements. If you cannot back them up, I wish you would stop berating those who disagree with you as being “unscientific”.
Once again, I have no problem with your stating that you have personally seen improvement in yourself, your family and amongst your friends with 100% anaerobic methods. I believe you are correct that certain species (such as bifidobacteria species,) will not proliferate under aerobic conditions and that anaerobic conditions are helpful in (but certainly not required for) discouraging pathogenic growth. It is reasonable to suggest that folks, who haven’t seen results using traditional methods, try fermentation under anaerobic conditions. But it is plainly true that many beneficial species of LAB can and do proliferate under aerobic conditions. This is the area that I think has caused so much confusion and heartache within the community. I have not read all of your posts on these topics, but the ones I have read are not at all clear on this point.
Your comments to me both here and on Facebook have all been derogatory, pushy and combative even though you admit you haven’t read the whole series and you’re asking multiple questions I’ve already answered or are asking for studies to prove something that is easily found in a textbook or dictionary. You want everything written out in one huge post and that isn’t the point of this blog or the series. If I were going to do that, I’d write a book instead. That’s not what blogging is about.
The issue at the heart of this debate is the amounts and types of bacteria. You’re so focused on LABs that you’re not seeing that other, aerobic bacteria also proliferate in the same environment and as long as they have oxygen, they can proliferate and compete with the LABs and reduce the LAB counts. Some of those aerobic bacteria don’t have good health effects- just because they aren’t classified as a pathogen because they don’t produce acute illness doesn’t mean they’re beneficial to your gut.
Oxygen also stresses some LABs and causes the release of hydrogen peroxide in amounts that incapacitate them and stop them from reproducing. There’s a good amount of research on oxygen toxicity, the presence of oxygen depresses or eliminates the antioxidants produced by the LABs, creates free radicals, eliminates Vitamin C and more. Some LABs do die in the presence of oxygen- some that are critical to gut health and I will be covering that soon.
So it’s not just the lactic acid bacteria you need to be concerned about- it’s the entire environment and all of the products produced by all of the bacteria involved. The hyper-focusing on LABs is keeping people from seeing the big picture.
Hi KerryAnn,
I have said absolutely *nothing* that was derogatory to you either here or on Facebook. I ask that you remove that remark from your last comment. As far as “combative” goes, that is a matter of interpretation. I did not feel I was being so.
I think that it is unfair to post a controversial idea and to tell people to come back later for a full explanation. Information is coming out in dribs and drabs and not all of us have the time, inclination or indeed the hardware to read every word you publish. This is why I asked for links.
Teri, this is a blog, not a book. If you aren’t inclined to take information in bites, I suggest you pick up a few textbooks on fermentation and lactic acid bacteria instead.
As to you being derogatory or combative, I’ll leave the comments and readers can decide for themselves.
KerryAnn, I noticed many things in my own life, on two different notes you addressed here.
The first being diet is different for everyone. I myself was a vegetarian for 4 years years, raised my currents kids as so and when I saw one thing was bad I went another way. The first being soy. Before there were anti-soy arguments, I noticed my son looking odd. I did some various food eliminations and found it wasn’t soy as a whole, but too much soy was his problem ( no one elses). Man did that cause a stir amongst vegetarians. Then to constantly decline processed veg foods was another strife I made. Anyway, when my my 4th child was a few months old we both developed thrush badly. I did lots of reading, trying all the ‘true’ methods to cure us and none worked till I found Pat Robinson and Heal Thyself saying, ignore the avoidance of ferments and actually enjoy them in every meal, plus some. Wow did it do wonders for us, especially dairy kefir. However, by this point I was off all the grains and beans and barely eating, which is when I found some info about going back to meat and the Paleo diet. Again, strife from the veg community. I’ve always known I’m not a meat fan (for many reasons) and chose to only eat small amounts while still eating huge amounts of veggies, where upon the paleo community said that I was doing it wrong because our ancestors ate more meat than that and that I needed to get over my vegetarianism and went on to attack vegetarians. The diet itself was a trial run and I felt awesome after it, but we couldn’t afford to keep it up and since none of us have major issues, decided to back down until I could budget it better. But the one thing I learned that is most important, was that my knowledge of everyone could sustain off of protien, no matter the source, was thrown out the window, when my 2 year old took such a fondness to meat and somehow came out of her shell (as if she hadn’t been getting enough protien even though my two older ones had been thriving for 4 years). Now I see when my oldest son avoids the meat on his plate I ask him to take a tiny bite (in case it’s just an alien object because of not having it for very long, versus his body wants nothing to do with it, like me) and then load him up on everything else (except soy) because his body isn’t the same as everyone elses. While I never definitely, no matter what, listened to the ‘experts,’ I did think they held some truth and tried to follow their advice until it just didn’t work anymore.
My second commenting is for the fermenting. I read your view a while back and a lightbulb went off in my head. Especially since you said, yes it’ll still ferment, but the quality might not be as good. This was just what I needed to know, since I was questioning left and right about my quality and I got a whole bunch of answers that didn’t help me, yet made me feel it was my fault.
I’m sorry you got a lot of flock for stating your opinion, which was a lot more friendly than some of these other TF bloggers that are absolutely right 100% of the time no matter what or how anyone proves them wrong. I do enjoy reading what you have to say, even if I don’t agree (which I think happened a whole 1 time), as well as making your recipes 🙂
Sunshine, so true. Learning to see the issues and trust your own observations is key. Going against the advice of your community is tough.
I’m so glad my post helped you!
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..eCourse: Supplements and Medications
I agree with your viewpoint. I don’t think one thing works for everyone and we need to use sense and self-awareness to find what works best for ourselves. For me, it has been the knowledge that my body likes carbs, starches and grains. I am healthier and stronger when I eat them, no matter what anyone else says or feels.
And I can’t even imagine how anyone could send you hate mail for choosing a different system of fermentation than they use. I think the Pickl-It system looks interesting and I may give it a try. I’ve been using mason jars, but they’re not a religion…just the only way I knew to ferment. I’m so sorry you’ve been attacked the way you have.
I found your blog while link hopping because of this series and you’re bookmarked already.
I’ve been transitioning to a traditional diet for a few months now and just a few. weeks ago began to more specifically heal my and my son’s guts. Whether or not true anaerobic fermentation is absolutely required I’m ordering some pickl-its for my kitchen. Seems a small price to pay for added quality insurance.
Thank you for continuing to share despite such negative feedback. I, for one, am very glad you spoke up.