After the nastygrams that arrived in my e-mail inbox this week and some of the comments I’ve had to delete off the blog from Part One of this series and my fermented french fry recipe, I would like to clear something up.
I do not hate mason jars. In fact, I love them. I live with a few hundred, in fact. They’re quite nice to me and I’m quite nice to them. I stuff them full of some of my favorite products and send them to a nice day at the spa in some very hot water on a regular basis. They love me for it.
I just don’t use them for ferments.
Are Mason Jars Traditional?
No traditional society fermented in glass as far as I can tell. But that doesn’t mean I think that you should go to using sheep’s stomachs to ferment your milk. It does mean that I believe you should make all efforts to duplicate the same environment that native people use to ferment. And the mason jar is not that.
Traditional societies overwhelming fermented in anaerobic conditions- we’ll go over this in detail in later posts. Anaerobic means that oxygen isn’t being let into the environment while fermentation is taking place. Aerobic means that oxygen is continuously present- there is a fresh supply available and it gets renewed at least periodically. We’ll revisit this in a minute.
The Pickl-It and the mason jar aren’t comperable. The Pickl-It is in a different league. The only reason the two get compared to each other is because they’re both made of glass. The Pickl-It’s direct competition is the Harsch crock, not the mason jar.
Really, it’s a shame that the mason jar got so entrenched in the fermenting world because it’s really not what is needed to produce true, complete ferments loaded with gut healing lactic acid bacteria (LABs). They produce two different products out of the same vegetables, each with different bacterial profiles/amounts and each with different species. Then you throw whey into the mix and you’ve got a bigger issue, but we’ll discuss whey on another Friday.
The Pickl-It is on par with a Harsch crock as both are anaerobic, not a mason jar and definitely not an open bowl as those are areobic. According to the makers of the mason jar, they are NOT air-tight unless they are canned with heat in a water bath or pressure canner and there is evidence of a solid seal between the sealing compound on the lid and the glass rim of the jar. The sealing compound just isn’t thick enough and the ring strong enough to create a reliable, completely hermetic (airtight) seal without the use of heat. And the ability of a mason jar to hold a vacuum seal isn’t evidence of their ability to be airtight during fermentation, either.
Have you noticed how the hermetic jars such as the Pickl-It and the Fido, and even the Grolsch bottles for making water kefir sodas (or homemade beers, but we’ll get to that in a minute) have a very thick rubber ring with a locking lid? That’s because the thickness of rubber combined with a lid held on by tension is necessary to create a hermetic seal. The rings of the mason jars, even when being used with an airlock attached to a lid, just aren’t airtight.
Seriously- ask a professional beer-maker if your mason jar is acceptable for fermentation or storage of beer and they’ll roll their eyes and laugh at you.
I love my mason jars, but they are NOT airtight and they will not produce the anaerobic environment that the lactic acid bacteria need to be able to out-compete the oxygen-loving bactera.
But My Veggies Stay Under the Liquid
Yes, that is good. They need to stay under the liquid so the bacteria can access them to eat the sugars and starches they consume in order to make lots of LAB babies. But being under the liquid doesn’t keep them anaerobic. When oxygen comes across a liquid, it diffuses into the liquid, providing an endless supply oxygen to the liquid in which you’re trying to ferment. Any basic science textbook will explain this process. That means the LABs, can be out-competed by the oxygen-loving bacteria and the LABs can die off.
Have you ever had a refrigerated batch of sauerkraut in a mason jar turn limp and gray or go mushy even though you haven’t added whey? That’s caused by the jar not being airtight. LABs stabilize the color and cause the long-lasting crunch, even if the jar is a year old. Non-whey ferments that go soggy, limp or nasty are due to the presence of oxygen-loving bacteria that proliferate due to… oxygen.
Have you ever had a batch mold? Mold is aerobic– it only grows when supplied with oxygen. Even that ‘harmess’ white mold (that isn’t) they tell you to scrape off. Notice mold grows on the surface- where it can get the most oxygen.
We address this issue more in this post.
Then What’s Happening In My Mason Jar?
So if it isn’t fermentation, what is it? If any oxygen is present, what is happening is called cellular respiration. You see, LAB production doesn’t begin immediately when you lock the lid down on a Pickl-It. First, cellular respiration must use up the last of the oxygen before the LABs can begin reproducing in droves in the oxygenless environment because their competition has been eliminated. The road to a complete ferment takes the same steps every time, it doesn’t matter what you’re fermenting. It takes the bacteria 2 or 3 days to use up the air in the top of the jar before it can go anaerobic, and I bet you’ve burped your jars at least once by then or fiddled with it, removing the lid.
Every time you re-supply the areobic bacteria with oxygen and the process starts all over again. If you’re using an inferior air-lock, it’s basically the equivalent of a slow leak, continually providing small amounts of oxygen. Either way, the LABs don’t stand a fighting chance with the continual re-supply of oxygen.
It takes 3-6 days for the concentration of LABs in an anaerobic fermentation vessel like the Pickl-It to reach 1% and that is only the first of several stages of fermentation. So even if you are fermenting in a mason jar and taking the risk of not burping it, if you stash it in the fridge after 3 days, it’s only partially fermented. But you likely have a mess on your hands because the jar has either leaked all over the place since the threads aren’t airtight (if they aren’t water-tight, they aren’t air-tight, either) or the jar has exploded by now.
So you see that the mason jar and the Pickl-It aren’t competitors, even though they’re both made of glass. The Pickl-It functions like the Harsch crock.
Want to read more about fermentation, including articles with references and more information on vessel types? See our Related Posts for all of the articles in this series.
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Would you please provide your opinion on the fermenting products offered by “Cooking God’s Way.”
They claim to do the same thing as Pickle-It but are much less expensive. I own both and value your opinion.
http://shop.cookinggodsway.com/proddetail.php?prod=cgw-alsk
Katie, there is nothing there to make those airtight. It’s just a plastic mason jar lid with no rubber seal, and those are notoriously leaky. I use them at home to store leftovers and I’ve had more than one occasion where they got tipped and leaked even though the lid was as tight as you could get it. I’d recommend you stick with the Pickl-It.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Lactic Acid Bacteria and the Lowly Mason Jar
I have been looking at these and they do seem to have a rubber gasket as do some other versions that attach to wide mouth canning jars. If they have the rubber gasket and the air lock and are held on with a threadded lid is there a problem? (Some are one part plastic lids and some fit inside of the metal lid.) There is at least one out there that doesn’t have the rubber gasket as well but at least 2 do. So in your opinion and from your research would that work or am I missing something?
Thanks!
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The threaded lid is an issue. To be airtight, it needs a wire bail that maintains a certain level of pressure. You can’t get that from a threaded lid.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Salt and Lacto-Fermentation
well, shoot. I just bought water kefir grains from Cultures For Health, and I was going to try my first home fermenting this weekend- in a mason jar. With nothing but a coffee filter on top of the jar to keep out dust and bugs, per the Cultures for Health video. Guess I’m back to square one, after all. So frustrating!
Megan, go ahead and use a mason jar with your kefir until you can get a Pickl-It.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Lactic Acid Bacteria and the Lowly Mason Jar
So you use Pickl-It for kefir also? How does it work with water kefir grains if they are only supposed to be left for 24-48 hours according to Cultures for Health? I do the mason jar thing like Megan O. I’m super curious on these posts. I’m only doing water kefir at the moment but hope to get into other fermenting later so these will be super informative for me.
Great post. Thanks for the information. After reading and looking at the pickl-it, I thought there has to be a better way, where I can still use all the jars I have and not have to spend the extra money. I found this blog post: http://gnowfglins.com/2010/07/16/diy-airlock-fruit-and-veggie-ferments/
It should only cost a few dollars per jar to buy only to parts you need from a beer supply store or online. I hope this helps some people.
I’m sorry, Rachael, but that isn’t airtight and it won’t give you an anaerobic environment like I discuss above. That’s just a mason jar with an airlock on it and the airlock isn’t the big issue, it’s the mason jar allowing air in and keeping the jar from moving through the fermentation process.
This won’t give you the large amount of LABs you need to heal your gut. Airlocks simply allow for off-gassing without build-up. They are important, but the biggest thing in fermentation is stopping oxygen from getting in. Any use of a mason jar is out for airtight as the lids and rings aren’t designed for an airtight seal unless you can them using boiling water or a pressure canner.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Lactic Acid Bacteria and the Lowly Mason Jar
Thanks so much for this information!! It was so timely as I am about to start GAPS with my daughter. We definitely want the gut healing LABs. I had no idea something like “pickl-it” even existed. I have been putting off starting to ferment as I wasn’t completely sure about using a mason jar.
So….when using my Pickl-It, do I need to have my ferments up close to the top of the jar? Unless I invest in a smaller Pickl-It, I would have to make fairly large batches of ferments to get the veggies up close to the top, IF that is what is necessary. Now that there are just the two of us, I am finding we do not go through as much as we did when there were several of us living at home.
FarmgirlCyn (Cindy) recently posted..Farm Fresh, comin’ right up!
Oops…forgot to add…
After the first few days of fermenting in the Pickl-It, I need to taste my ferments to see what stage they are at for our personal preferences. Would I be starting that whole process over again because i let oxygen in?
FarmgirlCyn (Cindy) recently posted..Farm Fresh, comin’ right up!
My understanding is that the fermentation would stop and it would switch back to cellular respiration to remove the oxygen before resuming fermentation again. So it would take longer to get to where you wanted to go, but it would still happen.
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Cindy, as I understand it, it’s ok to have the jar filled up to the shoulder. More than that and you run the risk of having problems with the carbon dioxide pushing brine or veggies up into the airlock system. Less than that is fine, too. I have had batches turn out just fine when he jar was only half-full.
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Why can’t we use a rubber ring inside the mason jar with the DIY airlock system?
All of the DIY-type options I have seen contain toxins and nasties you don’t want in contact with your food. BPA, formaldehyde and other chemicals. And the rings don’t have the same pressure points as a locking lid to ensure the pressure is enough to create an airtight seal.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..April Budget Menu Mailer Now Available!
I’m confused. I read the book wild fermentation and his don’t seem to be anaerobic.
Yes, that is correct. The ferments in Wild Fermentation would not be high in gut-healing Lactic Acid Bacteria unless you made them in a Harsch crock, a Pickl-It or another anaerobic method.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..April Budget Menu Mailer Now Available!
Dear KerryAnn,
I am loving my Pickl-Its and all my other Fido jars. Fermenting is going well, and I’ve never had a jar keep dehydrated foods crispy like the Fido jars do. I just had an amazing mango chip that I dehydrated months ago, and it shattered in my mouth. Yum! That jar is definitely airtight.
Do you think you could do a post detailing what you DO keep in Mason/Ball jars, so they still feel some love? I know most of us have huge collections of the things, and I’d like to hear some ideas for their continued use.
I plan to continue to use my Mason jars for: yoghurt, honey, rendered fat, leftovers, salad dressing, maybe some home-canned tomatoes, if I don’t dehydrate instead…
Not too many uses, now! What am I missing?
Hi KerryAnn,
So what happens after fermenting, in storage? Every time you open a jar, air will be introduced. Does that affect the LAB numbers?
Thanks!
My understanding is that once a ferment is complete and the LABs dominate, it can handle oxygen introduction when you open the jar because the numbers of oxygen-loving bacteria are extremely low and won’t be able to take back over. When you re-seal the jar, the oxygen will get used up again.
Also, you have to consider that the over-all oxygen in the jar will be lower as the brine will be lower in oxygen as it all got used up in stage one of fermentation.
I’m going to do more research and I’ll let you know what I find.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Video Blog: Pickl-It Q&A
I second Lisa’s question. I am very interested in how the LAB are maintained once the containers are being opened frequently.
Thanks for these very informative articles by the way.
Hello KerryAnn,
You said, “It takes 3-6 days for the concentration of LABs in an anaerobic fermentation vessel like the Pickl-It to reach 1% and that is only the first of several stages of fermentation.”
After talking to the lady from Pickl-it, I learned that cabbage does indeed take a LONG time to ferment. BUT, I’ve been used to doing my other veggie ferments in 3-4 days. With your Pickl-it and a recipe like ginger carrots for example, how many days does it take to fully ferment them?
What % of LABs are you aiming for, and how do you know when it is ready?
Thanks in advance!
Lea Ann recently posted..Updated Vitamix Lady website launched!
Sorry for all of the recent posts – I’ve just recently become VERY interested in the Pickl-it jars and how they work and I’m very eager to start my first batches!
I wanted to make a comment about the idea that the Pickl-it jars are expensive. The way I look at it, the only thing that comes close to them is the Harsch crocks. If you compare a Pickl-it jar to a Harsch crock you have a real bargain. In addition to a pure $ savings, the Pickl-it jars are more effective (no chance of molds being created), less work (not having to constantly fill the water lock), and come in more manageable sizes.
Lea Ann recently posted..Updated Vitamix Lady website launched!
I really appreciate the depth of thought and research that KerryAnn has put into these posts on anaerobic fermentation – I teach classes on these subjects using the pickl-its and often find myself in the position of defending the Pickl-its as a safe way to ferment with high LAB content with folks used to using mason jars…
I do resell Pickl-its jars – so that puts me at a disadvantage when trying to persuade folks this is a great affordable system…however I can’t make rely on my income from reselling them as a means of supporting our family….or really even at teaching these traditional foods….I, like Kathleen – owner of Pickl-it – have kids, family, chickens, my own cooking…and tons of prep and free support for those that attend my workshops…
And many folks that do end up buying jars does not generate any income for me – and I am fine with that – I am not trying to get rich – just to sustain my teaching – and as my husband recommends – don’t lose money on this 🙂
It’s important to remember where true value lies – in investing in our health and sharing our knowledge with others so they may benefit as well.
Thanks KerryAnn for all that you doing to spread the science behind fermentation.
Lisa of Lisa’s Counter Culture
Wow. I’m always impressed with the content that you offer … So TRUELY educational. You make this more than easy to understand. I’m going to be sharing all this valuable info with my gaggle of kiddos as a science lesson today. I spotted the article in my inbox this morning and felt it was super timely since our whole family’s on gaps. I just can’t seem to get back to making ferments other than water kefir and kombucha and I’ve never felt right about doing them in my jars. I do own a crock but I’ve only tried it once- huge soggy fail! I look forward to really mastering fermentation! Thanks for being bold and real.
The directions for my milk kefir grains said to put cheesecloth on top of jar, ie completely aerobic. it works. guess you’ll get to kefir later. thanks anna
Kefir grains produce lactic acid and should be done in a Pickl-It or other anaerobic set-up as letting air in just kills off what the grains are producing and you loose the full benefit. I’ll be discussing kefir this coming week on the blog.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Pickl-It Q&A: Answering Your Questions
This idea that mason jar lids aren’t airtight does not at all match my experience. I make sauerkraut in mason jars using the burp method, i.e., I keep the lids tightly closed, and once a day, I loosen the metal band just enough for the gas pressure to hiss out. If those lids weren’t airtight, they wouldn’t hold in the gas pressure. I’ve also vacuum sealed mason jars with a foodvac and had the vacuum hold for years.
As for burping allowing oxygen into the jar, if the band is only loosened enough for gas pressure to escape out of the tiniest crack, there’s no way for oxygen to get into the jar. The pressure inside the jar drops until there is equilibrium, and then the lid is immediately tightened back down; it takes all of a few seconds. For oxygen to make its way into the jar during those few seconds, there would have to be a sudden increase in pressure outside the jar to force air into it.
But, here’s the kicker: those little airlocks are not one-way valves. They maintain pressure equilibrium between the inside and outside of the jar, allowing gas to flow in either direction. A sufficiently large increase in the air pressure outside the jar means air will flow through the airlock and into the jar. And, an increase in air pressure can come from more than just weather; it can also come from opening/closing doors, ventilation systems turning on/off, etc.
With my method, the jars only have to be burped once a day for 5 or 6 days, at which point, no more gas is generated, and the jars remain tightly sealed until they’re opened. So, during the entire ferment, there’s only about 15 seconds that the jars aren’t tightly closed. A Pick-It jar, on the other hand, sits there the whole time with an airlock that can allow air into the jar. For all the hysteria about canning jars letting in oxygen, my canning jar method can actually do a better job of keeping out oxygen than a Pickl-It.
Alex, the makers of the mason jar will tell you it’s not airtight. I’ve also seen test results showing they leak oxygen. We’re going to do a video showing that leakage if we can get clear enough shots of what happens with the video equipment we have.
In order to be certified airtight, your jars must be tested. Fido is certified as hermetic. The mason jar is not- the makers don’t even claim it’s airtight unless it’s been pressure or water bath canned.
Using a vacuum sealer, which creates a vacuum, is not proof that they are airtight, it’s proof that a vacuum sealer can be used to form a seal. But vacuum sealing mason jars to ferment in is counterproductive and does not apply to our conversation because you don’t ferment under those conditions.
Airlocks most certainly do not allow for two-way air flow. They are a one-way system, policed by a seal of water or alcohol, depending on the system. Basic science will show you that. If it did allow for airflow, scientists and makers of fermented foods such as wine and beer would NEVER use them. My dad was a chemist who did fermentation on an extremely large scale and he laughed at the notion that a mason jar was airtight.
A canning jar will never do a better job than a Pickl-It or a Harsch crock or anaerobic lab equipment.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Mason Jar Love
The makers of canning jars are discussing air-tightness in the context of canning food, which is a life and death situation where heat is necessary to absolutely ensure an airtight seal to prevent botulism. Making sauerkraut doesn’t even require airlock technology, let alone an airtight seal that is absolutely certified and perfect.
Comparing LAB cabbage ferments to yeast ferments is apples to oranges. Yeast ferments generate a greater quantity of CO2, and they generate it continuously during the entire fermentation, which maintains a constant trend of gas exiting the fermentation vessel. Sauerkraut generates less CO2, and after about 5 days, CO2 production drops off. At that point, my canning jars are sealed tight, while a Pickl-It jar is at the mercy of changes in air pressure.
As for Harsch crocks, I used to own one, and there were times when the water level in the trough dropped more quickly than could be explained by evaporation, so clearly it is possible for situations to exist where the pressure inside is less than on the outside, creating suction from inside the container. Despite that, the crock still made perfect kraut every time as long as I stuck to the recipe that came with the crock (5 Tbsp salt per 10 lbs cabbage). One time, I even had a batch turn out just fine after enough water had evaporated from the trough to lose the airlock for some period of time.
Using the same proportion of salt to cabbage, I have also made sauerkraut in a Perfect Pickler as well as plain, metal-lid canning jars, and there is no noticeable difference in the finished kraut between those methods and a Harsch crock. The one time I tried making sauerkraut in an open stoneware crock was a disaster, and I do prefer the ease and consistency of keeping air out of the sauerkraut fermentation vessel. But, my real world experience tells me that canning jars are not as deficient as the Pickl-It marketing hype claims they are.
Your comments don’t address the real issue at hand. Taste, smell and look isn’t the issue, it’s a distraction. The content of lactic acid bacteria and the presence and amount and types of acetic acid bacteria is the issue. You can’t see that with your eyes. Your eyes can’t see what heals your gut.
The ‘noticeable’ difference don’t come until slime, mold and color changes happen after a while in storage. You can’t tell much taste difference between salt-cured and lactofermented and they look the same for a while until the nasties set in. A truly lactofermented ferment won’t go bad after a few months and even a year or two as long as it remains airtight. I’ve yet to meet someone who has fermented for a long time in a mason jar who has never had a problem with bad bacteria setting in after a while. Quality sauerkraut won’t mold or produce slime- those don’t happen unless air is present.
I’ve fermented in mason jars as you’ve described and I’ve had mold and slime problems after a couple of months. Yet the two-year old batch of sauerkraut in my fridge that was made in a pickl-it is still mold free and tastes, looks and smells the same it did the day it was done. I’ve had plenty of ferments go bad in mason jars in my over ten years of doing traditional foods, but I’ve yet to have a failed batch in a Harsch or a Pickl-It.
What you can’t see- the different bacterial profiles, is the BIG issue. It doesn’t matter what it looks like since your eye can’t tell the difference in different types that are newly done, what matters is what’s in it on a bacterial level. I’ve seen the test results of people who have done testing on different methods and the mason jar just doesn’t compare in terms of real results in the production of LABs in quantity and the ability to exclude other bacteria to heal your gut and that’s what we’re after.
At the end of the day, what you do in your kitchen is your business and your decision. If you read my work and choose to do something else, that’s not my concern. It is my responsibility as a blogger to get sound information on there based on good science and tradition and truly anaerobic fermentation is both. It’s not hype, it’s tradition and science that both point to the same results.
KerryAnn Foster recently posted..Mason Jar Love
Ok, then, you’ve convinced me to invest in some Italian Fido jars.
Hi KerryAnn, Please ignore any “nasty-grams” and keep sharing your knowledge and experience about fermented foods. I have tried a few recipes from the Nourishing Traditions and while most were successful, I’ve had a couple fail and/or leak all over my fridge. While the NT may provide a good introduction to these foods there are lots of us who really appreciate the in depth information about fermented foods you are sharing here. So, thank-you very much!
Hi Kerry Ann – I am really disappointed to hear that there are some unsavory people sending you not-so-nice messages. I’m personally very tired of seeing bloggers getting attacked for sharing valuable knowledge and information with others, and it’s becoming an issue in many places. I won’t mention any names, but I’m disappointed at the lack of adult behavior in the sustainable food community I’ve seen as of late, I thought for certain that type of problem wouldn’t occur here as most of us strive toward being away from the mainstream and supporting traditional food preparation, farming, and sustainable ways of living. I can see that not everyone shares that same end goal, and to some people it’s really more important to belittle others to make themselves look good in order to gain profit, more readers, and control over the community. Those who behave like this will not prevail, however, and eventually most people will see them for what they are: bullies and people who care more about power and profit than the health and well being of our community and its ability to flourish over time.
With that said, I’m still new to fermenting, although I’ve done it numerous times over the last few years and I’ve had good luck with Mason jars, but I’m not married to them. I also have a number of the Fido jars. I use them often and love them. I’ve heard a lot about the Pickl-It jars and I’m eager to get a few and try them.
Thanks again Kerry Ann for sharing all that you do with our community. I love and appreciate what you do. 🙂
Raine recently posted..Health Blogger Under Fire: Defend Freedom of Health Information & Choices!
The last line of your blog says “The mason jar functions like the Harsch crock.” Did you mean the Pickl-It?
Yes, I did. I will correct it. Thank you for catching that! You write a post and check it and check it and there are always some errors you miss. lol
That’s why people need good editors like me. 🙂
Would a mason jar work anaerobically if I used a Foodsaver canning jar attachment to extract the air and create a vacuum?
Janice, because the lactic acid bacteria generate carbon dioxide, they literally create gas. That changes the air pressure, and air pressure is what holds a vacuum in place- a vacuum is more air pressure outside the vessel than in. So it causes the lid to pop off in short order.
Thanks. Sounds like the voice of experience.
Yes, I tried it to see how long it would work. Fermentation produces so much carbon dioxide that it only briefly stays sealed.
Wow. Thank you for your post. I’m new at all this, and I’ve been learning about lacto-fermenting for couple of months. Now two days after I finally attempt my first ferments (sauerkraut, ginger carrots and pickled cucumbers) in my lovely Mason jars I see your post…. so sad!!! Should I just trow them away? I was looking and shacking my jars yesterday when some juice came out oppps, that’s not good 🙁 I’m so overwhelmed with so much info from left to right and so many books, and videos…. But you somehow made it simple to me to understand the basics and focus on the goal: no oxygen! Thank you so much!
Nancy, whether or not you should consume them is a personal choice. I believe it is beneficial to know the differences in the different types of ferments, and unless you’re seriously ill, knowing the different flavor profiles different fermenting vessels produce will be of a benefit.
It seems as if a large part of this debates hinges on production of LAB’s but does anyone have links to studies that actually compare LAB levels from the various fermentation/vessel methods?
Ryan, no, because only anaerobic vessels are considered fermentation. Fermentation is, by definition, anaerobic when it comes to vegetables, fruits and dairy. Fermentation equipment you purchase from science supply houses is truly anaerobic. And it’s never plastic, only glass or metal.
Bread is fermented in open air. Entire rivers can become eutrophic, void of oxygen. Killing off everything but the anaerobic bacteria, despite being far from sealed hermetically. I am curious to look into how many LABs are actually obligate anaerobes (many anaerobic bacteria do not face certain death when exposed to oxygen). Seems fishy I have never heard any such claims until the exact moment I also learned about this magical ‘pickle-it’ especially since fermentation obviously does occur in the presence of oxygen, you yourself admitted the bacteria are still there. What else are they doing? Don’t they survive by fermenting things? I am very dubious of all this and eager to do more research.
Hypoxia, where fish kills occur, are caused by pollutants or phytoplankton, neither of which should be in your ferments. Fermentation is, by definition, anaerobic. If you have oxygen present, you have cellular respiration going on, and certain bacteria most certainly do get killed in both situations. I have other blog posts that discuss oxygen exposure and which bacteria are or are not sensitive to it, the amounts of oxygen dissolved in water and more.